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Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby kcgator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:29 pm

MJMGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:
kcgator wrote:
bigman1979 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Those statistics are beyond misleading due to the level of talent each coach inherited. Therefore, your argument is flawed and incorrect.

Zook inherited a team that was one win away the previous season of playing for the Nat'l Title. While Muschamp inherited a sinking ship - the 2010 Gator Football Team. Remember this? "We are a broken program right now." Urban's own words in 2010.

Zook had Grossman, Troupe, Graham, Jacobs, and even Carlos Perez and Kelvin Kight (who I would take over any of our current WR's, or WR's from 2 yrs. ago). In addition, he had a much more skilled 0-line to work with. Max Starks being one of them.

Champ deserves at least 2 more seasons to clean up the mess Urby left him.
How can you even compare those players to Brantley, Driskel, Dunbar, Patton, and Burton?


Wow. Revisionist history at it's best. The complaint when Zook took over was Spurrier left the "cupboard bare". Your point is moot. It's not the players.

I've never heard that about the players Zook got. He got a lot oof great players across the board. We almost won the NC the year Spurrier left, and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year. Who was saying the "cupbooard was bare?"

Obviously, KC was.


Not only is Zook following the most successful era in the program's history. But Spurrier knew when to get out, in terms of the talent pool and the schedule.

"We did leave the cupboard somewhat bare," Spurrier acknowledged recently.


http://www.polkpreps.com/article/20030828/NEWS/308280344?p=2&tc=pg

Straight from Spurrier's mouth. I didn't just start following Florida football yesterday. :rolleyes:
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby MJMGator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:31 pm

kcgator wrote:
MJMGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:
kcgator wrote:
bigman1979 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Those statistics are beyond misleading due to the level of talent each coach inherited. Therefore, your argument is flawed and incorrect.

Zook inherited a team that was one win away the previous season of playing for the Nat'l Title. While Muschamp inherited a sinking ship - the 2010 Gator Football Team. Remember this? "We are a broken program right now." Urban's own words in 2010.

Zook had Grossman, Troupe, Graham, Jacobs, and even Carlos Perez and Kelvin Kight (who I would take over any of our current WR's, or WR's from 2 yrs. ago). In addition, he had a much more skilled 0-line to work with. Max Starks being one of them.

Champ deserves at least 2 more seasons to clean up the mess Urby left him.
How can you even compare those players to Brantley, Driskel, Dunbar, Patton, and Burton?


Wow. Revisionist history at it's best. The complaint when Zook took over was Spurrier left the "cupboard bare". Your point is moot. It's not the players.

I've never heard that about the players Zook got. He got a lot oof great players across the board. We almost won the NC the year Spurrier left, and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year. Who was saying the "cupbooard was bare?"

Obviously, KC was.


Not only is Zook following the most successful era in the program's history. But Spurrier knew when to get out, in terms of the talent pool and the schedule.

"We did leave the cupboard somewhat bare," Spurrier acknowledged recently.


http://www.polkpreps.com/article/20030828/NEWS/308280344?p=2&tc=pg

Straight from Spurrier's mouth. I didn't just start following Florida football yesterday. :rolleyes:

You honestly think what Zook inherited can come close to comparing to what champ did? Seriously?
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby law98gator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:33 pm

LBSpikes wrote: and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year.

Just a side note, but Grossman didn't stay his senior year. He left early. However, he redshirted and was eligible to leave as a redshirt soph, coming off his Heisman Season (I refuse to recognize that robbery by another player). Zook convinced him to stay for his junior season.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby kcgator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

MJMGator wrote:
kcgator wrote:
MJMGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:
kcgator wrote:
bigman1979 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Those statistics are beyond misleading due to the level of talent each coach inherited. Therefore, your argument is flawed and incorrect.

Zook inherited a team that was one win away the previous season of playing for the Nat'l Title. While Muschamp inherited a sinking ship - the 2010 Gator Football Team. Remember this? "We are a broken program right now." Urban's own words in 2010.

Zook had Grossman, Troupe, Graham, Jacobs, and even Carlos Perez and Kelvin Kight (who I would take over any of our current WR's, or WR's from 2 yrs. ago). In addition, he had a much more skilled 0-line to work with. Max Starks being one of them.

Champ deserves at least 2 more seasons to clean up the mess Urby left him.
How can you even compare those players to Brantley, Driskel, Dunbar, Patton, and Burton?


Wow. Revisionist history at it's best. The complaint when Zook took over was Spurrier left the "cupboard bare". Your point is moot. It's not the players.

I've never heard that about the players Zook got. He got a lot oof great players across the board. We almost won the NC the year Spurrier left, and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year. Who was saying the "cupbooard was bare?"

Obviously, KC was.


Not only is Zook following the most successful era in the program's history. But Spurrier knew when to get out, in terms of the talent pool and the schedule.

"We did leave the cupboard somewhat bare," Spurrier acknowledged recently.


http://www.polkpreps.com/article/20030828/NEWS/308280344?p=2&tc=pg

Straight from Spurrier's mouth. I didn't just start following Florida football yesterday. :rolleyes:

You honestly think what Zook inherited can come close to comparing to what champ did? Seriously?


Yes, I do. Muschamp went 11-2 with the "crap" Meyer left him. Now he has more of "his" players. Results? You be the judge.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby LBSpikes » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:54 pm

kcgator wrote:
MJMGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:
kcgator wrote:
bigman1979 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Those statistics are beyond misleading due to the level of talent each coach inherited. Therefore, your argument is flawed and incorrect.

Zook inherited a team that was one win away the previous season of playing for the Nat'l Title. While Muschamp inherited a sinking ship - the 2010 Gator Football Team. Remember this? "We are a broken program right now." Urban's own words in 2010.

Zook had Grossman, Troupe, Graham, Jacobs, and even Carlos Perez and Kelvin Kight (who I would take over any of our current WR's, or WR's from 2 yrs. ago). In addition, he had a much more skilled 0-line to work with. Max Starks being one of them.

Champ deserves at least 2 more seasons to clean up the mess Urby left him.
How can you even compare those players to Brantley, Driskel, Dunbar, Patton, and Burton?


Wow. Revisionist history at it's best. The complaint when Zook took over was Spurrier left the "cupboard bare". Your point is moot. It's not the players.

I've never heard that about the players Zook got. He got a lot oof great players across the board. We almost won the NC the year Spurrier left, and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year. Who was saying the "cupbooard was bare?"

Obviously, KC was.


Not only is Zook following the most successful era in the program's history. But Spurrier knew when to get out, in terms of the talent pool and the schedule.

"We did leave the cupboard somewhat bare," Spurrier acknowledged recently.


http://www.polkpreps.com/article/20030828/NEWS/308280344?p=2&tc=pg

Straight from Spurrier's mouth. I didn't just start following Florida football yesterday. :rolleyes:

Somewhat bare, and that's Spurrier being apologetic. We both know, especially offensively (think QB, TE, WRs, OLine, and RB), Spurrier left more to work with than Meyer did. And it;s pretty clear if you look at UF almost winning a NC in 2001 vs dragging ass in 2010 with Daz dazzling us.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby StreetFightingGator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:10 pm

I am so sick of hearing that Spurrier left the cupboard bare BS! The nucleus of that 2002 team was one fourth down conversion away from playing for a national title!

Here are the starters that Zook and Champ fielded in their second game as head coach in 2002 and 2011 against Miami and UAB respectively. As anyone with half a brain can see that 2002 roster was LOADED!!! Especially on offense!

Perhaps the biggest surprise for that 2002 squad was how poorly the defense played at times when it was almost all juniors and seniors starting. Remember that was right before Charlie Strong was hired as DC.

On the other hand, Howard and Green were the only seniors starting on that '11 defense. Everyone else was a sophomore or junior with the exception of Roberson who was a freshman.

Zookers Musgators
LT M. Starks LT X. Nixon
LG S. Snell LG Wenger
C M. Degory C Harrison
RG D. Jogenson RG Halapio
RT J. Colon RT C. Green
TE A. Walker TE J. Reed
WR T. Jacobs WR D. Thompson
WR C. Perez WR Q. Dunbar
WR K. Kight WR T. Burton
RB E. Graham RB C. Rainey
QB R. Grossman QB J. Brantley

DL M. Oquendo-Johnson DL Green
DL B. Savelio DL Easley
DL I. Scott DL Howard
DL C. Mitchell LB Powell
LB M. Farrior LB McCray
LB B. Hardmon LB Bostic
LB M. Nattiel LB J. Jenkins
CB K. Ratliff CB Roberson
CB R. Cromartie CB Riggs
S G. Scott S Elam
S T. Johnson S Evans
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby PastyStoole » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:11 am

MJMGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:
kcgator wrote:
bigman1979 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Those statistics are beyond misleading due to the level of talent each coach inherited. Therefore, your argument is flawed and incorrect.

Zook inherited a team that was one win away the previous season of playing for the Nat'l Title. While Muschamp inherited a sinking ship - the 2010 Gator Football Team. Remember this? "We are a broken program right now." Urban's own words in 2010.

Zook had Grossman, Troupe, Graham, Jacobs, and even Carlos Perez and Kelvin Kight (who I would take over any of our current WR's, or WR's from 2 yrs. ago). In addition, he had a much more skilled 0-line to work with. Max Starks being one of them.

Champ deserves at least 2 more seasons to clean up the mess Urby left him.
How can you even compare those players to Brantley, Driskel, Dunbar, Patton, and Burton?


Wow. Revisionist history at it's best. The complaint when Zook took over was Spurrier left the "cupboard bare". Your point is moot. It's not the players.

I've never heard that about the players Zook got. He got a lot oof great players across the board. We almost won the NC the year Spurrier left, and one of the 1st things Zook did was get Grossman to stay his senior year. Who was saying the "cupbooard was bare?"

Obviously, KC was.


Completely ignorant comment on KCs part to say the cupboard was bare on offense. In addition to Grossman, Starks, Graham, Troupe, et al, Spurrier had secured the commitment from Ciatrick Fason, who was a monster.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby mrgator » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:30 am

StreetFightingGator wrote:
Zookers Musgators
LT M. Starks LT X. Nixon
LG S. Snell LG Wenger
C M. Degory C Harrison
RG D. Jogenson RG Halapio
RT J. Colon RT C. Green
TE A. Walker TE J. Reed
WR T. Jacobs WR D. Thompson
WR C. Perez WR Q. Dunbar
WR K. Kight WR T. Burton
RB E. Graham RB C. Rainey
QB R. Grossman QB J. Brantley

DL M. Oquendo-Johnson DL Green
DL B. Savelio DL Easley
DL I. Scott DL Howard
DL C. Mitchell LB Powell
LB M. Farrior LB McCray
LB B. Hardmon LB Bostic
LB M. Nattiel LB J. Jenkins
CB K. Ratliff CB Roberson
CB R. Cromartie CB Riggs
S G. Scott S Elam
S T. Johnson S Evans


My eyes hurt trying to read this... :lol:
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby LBSpikes » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:55 am

No doubt Meyer left less to Champ than Spurrier left for Zook. Grossman vs Brantley says it all. But then look at the OLine and so forth.

And Leak made Zook's second season much easier, since he played well as a true freshman. Our problem was our freshmen QBs weren't good enough in 2011 and that Brantley had one year of eligibility left and Weis ate it up with the small RBs to boot.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby GreenevilleGator » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:04 pm

I think comparing Muschamp's and Zook's records at this point is timely. Both inherited teams 1 year removed from a #1 recruiting class (Spurrier in 2000 with Berlin & the Berlin Wall, Meyer in 2009 with RoPo, Easley, Floyd, & co). Both struggled to implement schemes very different from their predecessor. The program was not "broken" when Meyer left, he was broken. He tried to hand off everything to his coordinators and be a figurehead manager but couldn't make it work. Muschamp does not have the experience gained from building a winner at a lesser school like Bowling Green, Utah, or Duke. He has no experience from which to draw on. That is huge when you are under the bright lights of UF. Just because he grew up in Gainesville and is emotional and hard-working does not mean he will be a good coach of the Gators. His style, low-scoring smash-mouth football, will result in close games by design. I don't think there are many Gator fans who object to tight games with LSU, UGa, etc. It's the tight games with the likes of Bowling Green, La-Lafayette, Toledo, Kentucky that are hard to stomach. Those are the easy wins that got game experience for 2nd and 3rd teamers under Meyer and Spurrier and hell even under Zook. And while there will be the occasional year where Muschamp will catch lightning in a bottle and win 11 games like last year, the odds are he will have more 6-6 or 7-5 years. If Muschamp stays on for another 3 years I would be shocked if we don't lose at least 12 games in them. Would that still be because of Meyer?
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby GreenevilleGator » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:25 pm

LBSpikes wrote:No doubt Meyer left less to Champ than Spurrier left for Zook. Grossman vs Brantley says it all. But then look at the OLine and so forth.

And Leak made Zook's second season much easier, since he played well as a true freshman. Our problem was our freshmen QBs weren't good enough in 2011 and that Brantley had one year of eligibility left and Weis ate it up with the small RBs to boot.


Brantley had no killer instinct, but by way of full disclosure Brantley was a much higher rated prospect than Grossman. He didn't fit in Meyer's spread but Weis was supposed to be able to fix that with his pro-style offense. I would consider Brantley vs Grossman a wash for an incoming staff.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby The RH Factor » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Zook - snakebit when it came to the teams he lost to

Muschamp - snakebit when it comes to injuries
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby soflagator » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:55 pm

GreenevilleGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:No doubt Meyer left less to Champ than Spurrier left for Zook. Grossman vs Brantley says it all. But then look at the OLine and so forth.

And Leak made Zook's second season much easier, since he played well as a true freshman. Our problem was our freshmen QBs weren't good enough in 2011 and that Brantley had one year of eligibility left and Weis ate it up with the small RBs to boot.


Brantley had no killer instinct, but by way of full disclosure Brantley was a much higher rated prospect than Grossman. He didn't fit in Meyer's spread but Weis was supposed to be able to fix that with his pro-style offense. I would consider Brantley vs Grossman a wash for an incoming staff.


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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby ufgator812. » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:08 pm

GreenevilleGator wrote:I think comparing Muschamp's and Zook's records at this point is timely. Both inherited teams 1 year removed from a #1 recruiting class (Spurrier in 2000 with Berlin & the Berlin Wall, Meyer in 2009 with RoPo, Easley, Floyd, & co). Both struggled to implement schemes very different from their predecessor. The program was not "broken" when Meyer left, he was broken. He tried to hand off everything to his coordinators and be a figurehead manager but couldn't make it work. Muschamp does not have the experience gained from building a winner at a lesser school like Bowling Green, Utah, or Duke. He has no experience from which to draw on. That is huge when you are under the bright lights of UF. Just because he grew up in Gainesville and is emotional and hard-working does not mean he will be a good coach of the Gators. His style, low-scoring smash-mouth football, will result in close games by design. I don't think there are many Gator fans who object to tight games with LSU, UGa, etc. It's the tight games with the likes of Bowling Green, La-Lafayette, Toledo, Kentucky that are hard to stomach. Those are the easy wins that got game experience for 2nd and 3rd teamers under Meyer and Spurrier and hell even under Zook. And while there will be the occasional year where Muschamp will catch lightning in a bottle and win 11 games like last year, the odds are he will have more 6-6 or 7-5 years. If Muschamp stays on for another 3 years I would be shocked if we don't lose at least 12 games in them. Would that still be because of Meyer?


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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby soflagator » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:15 pm

ufgator812. wrote:
GreenevilleGator wrote:I think comparing Muschamp's and Zook's records at this point is timely. Both inherited teams 1 year removed from a #1 recruiting class (Spurrier in 2000 with Berlin & the Berlin Wall, Meyer in 2009 with RoPo, Easley, Floyd, & co). Both struggled to implement schemes very different from their predecessor. The program was not "broken" when Meyer left, he was broken. He tried to hand off everything to his coordinators and be a figurehead manager but couldn't make it work. Muschamp does not have the experience gained from building a winner at a lesser school like Bowling Green, Utah, or Duke. He has no experience from which to draw on. That is huge when you are under the bright lights of UF. Just because he grew up in Gainesville and is emotional and hard-working does not mean he will be a good coach of the Gators. His style, low-scoring smash-mouth football, will result in close games by design. I don't think there are many Gator fans who object to tight games with LSU, UGa, etc. It's the tight games with the likes of Bowling Green, La-Lafayette, Toledo, Kentucky that are hard to stomach. Those are the easy wins that got game experience for 2nd and 3rd teamers under Meyer and Spurrier and hell even under Zook. And while there will be the occasional year where Muschamp will catch lightning in a bottle and win 11 games like last year, the odds are he will have more 6-6 or 7-5 years. If Muschamp stays on for another 3 years I would be shocked if we don't lose at least 12 games in them. Would that still be because of Meyer?


Amen.


Well, I'm hoping it's not an "Amen" situation. But until proven otherwise, I'm not going to disagree with the sentiment here. And yes, plenty will be blaming Meyer well into the 2020's. He was never "one of them".
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby Punto » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:53 pm

And the Punto was sent to the Dungeon for his prophetic-post back on this very topic back on July 11th:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27586

While I was against his initial hiring, this whole thing pretty much sucks, and the Punto is very disappointed in both Will and Foley that he has not panned-out.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby JHCRANE-14 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:34 pm

The_AlphaGator1906 wrote:
kcgator wrote:Zook 23–14
Champ 22-11

Zook got fired.


Wow, they are close and that is with WM going 11-2. These are different times however. USCw fired thier coach and UT could do the same. I don't see WM getting fired this year. Maybe next year if things don't start to improve and if Chip Kelly is canned by Philly. Could you imagine the Ducks offense with FL players? We would be better than the Ducks at their own game d coach now. I hope he turns it around.


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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby oxrageous » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Punto wrote:And the Punto was sent to the Dungeon for his prophetic-post back on this very topic back on July 11th:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27586

While I was against his initial hiring, this whole thing pretty much sucks, and the Punto is very disappointed in both Will and Foley that he has not panned-out.

Talking in the 3rd person will get you banned. Consider this a fair warning.
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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby -THE DUDE- » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:49 pm

soflagator wrote:
GreenevilleGator wrote:
LBSpikes wrote:No doubt Meyer left less to Champ than Spurrier left for Zook. Grossman vs Brantley says it all. But then look at the OLine and so forth.

And Leak made Zook's second season much easier, since he played well as a true freshman. Our problem was our freshmen QBs weren't good enough in 2011 and that Brantley had one year of eligibility left and Weis ate it up with the small RBs to boot.


Brantley had no killer instinct, but by way of full disclosure Brantley was a much higher rated prospect than Grossman. He didn't fit in Meyer's spread but Weis was supposed to be able to fix that with his pro-style offense. I would consider Brantley vs Grossman a wash for an incoming staff.


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HOLY HELL this might be one of the dumbest comments i've ever seen on GSMB and you could probably throw in whorechant as well...wow

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Re: Ronald Zook vs Will Muschamp 3 year records

Postby PigsEyeGator » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:54 pm

Punto wrote:While I was against his initial hiring, this whole thing pretty much sucks, and the Punto is very disappointed in both Will and Foley that he has not panned-out.

Ox, he mixed first- and third- person in his last sentence. Ban him!
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