This Gator BBall team compared to the 04s

[mrgator]

I'm not very surprised by the loss last night to Missouri and even predicted this would probably happen. But I told myself that these things happen when you play 30+ games a season. That got me thinking to the O4's and how February seemed tough both years. But when push came to shove and the season came to crunch time, they got their act together and made two amazing runs. So how would you compare this current team realistically to the 04's, for better or worse.

[Jbossgator9]

The 04s ran Billy D's system to perfection. All the plays are basically the same from over the years. Its just the players names running the plays is whats different. When it came down to it, the 04s won titles. This current team really can't be compared to the 04s because they haven't won anything. As you can see from last night, anything can happen on the road. Mizzou packed it in against Young and dared us to shoot 3s and we missed a bunch. We hit some free throws and we probably win the game. You can say all you want about Boynton's terrible missed 3 pointer late in the game, we lost this game as a TEAM and you can be sure that Billy D will coach up these guys and we will be good come March. We will be fine. Go Gators!!

[Panhandle Gator]

Actually, this team is starting to remind me more of the 2004 season, and all those close losses with Matt Walsh and Anthony Roberson, than it does the '04's,

I wasn’t a big fan of Erving Walker’s last year, but at least he was leader, our go to guy who wanted the ball in his hands when we needed a big shot.

The personality of this team is becoming very concerning. Who on this team is going to step up and take a leadership role with the game on the line?

[Jbossgator9]

In the 2004 season UF went on to WIN the SEC Tourney Title and DESTROY UK in the title game 70-53. Walsh had 26 points in that game and was named the MVP. David Lee had 9 points and 17 rebounds in that game too.

[NVGator]

Actually, this team is starting to remind me more of the 2004 season, and all those close losses with Matt Walsh and Anthony Roberson, than it does the '04's,

I wasn’t a big fan of Erving Walker’s last year, but at least he was leader, our go to guy who wanted the ball in his hands when we needed a big shot.

The personality of this team is becoming very concerning. Who on this team is going to step up and take a leadership role with the game on the line?

That's the problem. We don't have anyone who's doing that.

Last night, on the Indiana v. Michigan State game, Magic Johnson made a statement that you can tell who the elite players are because they step up in big time games, especially road games, and lift the team.

He was speaking about Victor Oladipo. A junior, a baller.

[ATXGator]

Actually, this team is starting to remind me more of the 2004 season, and all those close losses with Matt Walsh and Anthony Roberson, than it does the '04's,

I wasn’t a big fan of Erving Walker’s last year, but at least he was leader, our go to guy who wanted the ball in his hands when we needed a big shot.

The personality of this team is becoming very concerning. Who on this team is going to step up and take a leadership role with the game on the line?

That's the problem. We don't have anyone who's doing that.

Last night, on the Indiana v. Michigan State game, Magic Johnson made a statement that you can tell who the elite players are because they step up in big time games, especially road games, and lift the team.

He was speaking about Victor Oladipo. A junior, a baller.

Exactly, one of the biggest problems is we don't have that "go to" guy on this team.

Now I will say I think this team wins with WY because we get a couple more defensive rebounds, but what worries me in the tournament is who gets the ball in his hands...

The 04s had Green and Brewer who could hit key shots. We need to focus on going to P. Young more inside, we did it early in the 2nd half, then stopped.

[WobbleGator]

Funny how when we win, everyone likes to point out how great we play team ball. But when we lose, people want to point out that we don't have a go to scorer.

[mrgator]

Actually, this team is starting to remind me more of the 2004 season, and all those close losses with Matt Walsh and Anthony Roberson, than it does the '04's,

I wasn’t a big fan of Erving Walker’s last year, but at least he was leader, our go to guy who wanted the ball in his hands when we needed a big shot.

The personality of this team is becoming very concerning. Who on this team is going to step up and take a leadership role with the game on the line?

I know I've gotten on this current team for not winning the close games but I don't think they are soft like the 2004 team, IMO. I think this current team is tougher and plays a WHOLE lot better defense and they play much more as a team so the ceiling for the 12-13 team is higher. I just think the switch HAS to flip for them. They've been in enough tough games over the past couple of years that eventually they are going to be the team that grinds out the win.

Can they do it in time for the tournaments? TBD.

[WhoGator]

Been there, done that... actually the 04's collapsed worse, though this regular season is far from over.

2006 - After starting 17-0 we went 5-6 from January 21-Feb 26 and all the losses were close games. On Feb 18, we were 22-3 and then lost 3 straight (at Arkansas, home vs SCar, at Alabama) before closing out the regular season with wins vs Georgia and at Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

2007 - We started 24-2 blowing almost everyone out (lost 82-80 vs Kansas and 70-66 at FSU). From Feb 17-27 we lost 3 of 4 (at Vandy, at LSU, at Tenn) before closing out with a home win vs Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

Many similarities... a dominant team that struggles with the close ones.

[Gatormatic]

I think Erik Murphy and Scottie Wilbekin can be go to guys who take last shots in games. I also think Rosario has ice water in his veins and wouldn't mind him taking a last shot either (if he doesn't just shimmy and shoot a contested 3). I know he airballed at the end but that was a last second heave, I mean more like a shot where you have 19 seconds and have a chance to create.

[mrgator]

Funny how when we win, everyone likes to point out how great we play team ball. But when we lose, people want to point out that we don't have a go to scorer.

It is an interesting conundrum. But I think you can have both at the same time. I think a team that plays great as a team will win more games than they lose and will generally go far in tournament. At the same time, when a game is on the line it's nice to know you've got someone who can generally raise their level of play in the clutch. The 04's were so dominant because they were both. they played great team ball but you could count on all 5 starters to make a clutch play when the final seconds ticked. Greene, Humphries, Brewer and the Bigs all made clutch plays in big, close games.

This 2012 team has the team concept down but we haven't seen a single player make the tough free throw or knock down the big jumper at the end of regulation to win it or send it to overtime. That is why we either win by 10+ but never win by 1-3 points.

[mrgator]

Been there, done that... actually the 04's collapsed worse, though this regular season is far from over.

2006 - After starting 17-0 we went 5-6 from January 21-Feb 26 and all the losses were close games. On Feb 18, we were 22-3 and then lost 3 straight (at Arkansas, home vs SCar, at Alabama) before closing out the regular season with wins vs Georgia and at Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

2007 - We started 24-2 blowing almost everyone out (lost 82-80 vs Kansas and 70-66 at FSU). From Feb 17-27 we lost 3 of 4 (at Vandy, at LSU, at Tenn) before closing out with a home win vs Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

Many similarities... a dominant team that struggles with the close ones.

Exactly. Very well stated. I've got my fingers crossed that this Gator team will put it all together at the right time to make a deep run.

Looking at it another way: I think this team is better than the last two gator bball teams and those teams made it to the Elite 8. Depending on our seeding, I see another deep run as very possible.

[WobbleGator]

We need Parsons back.

[Class of '78]

Comparing teams is difficult stuff, but if you have to compare this year's team to any other, it's not to the 2004 team (someone correctly labeled it as soft, and it was) or the one that won back-to-backs (see below). It's the 2000 team.

Donovan's 2000 team similarly lacked an offensive identity. UF's run to the NCAA final was fueled by a deep bench and the constant full-court pressure Donovan was able to bring as a result, rotating in fresh bodies, similar to this year's team. It was a team that, like the current one, thrived on turnovers and transition offense rather than the half court for which it struggled. It was a similarly tough, athletic bunch led by a physical center (Haslem vs. Young), a 6-10 guy who could consistently nail the three (Bonner vs. Murphy) and a scrappy forward who continually sacrificed himself (Wright vs. Yeguete). Whereas the 2000 team enjoyed the versatility of Mike Miller, the 2012-13 team doesn't have a counterpart.

Still, it's as close as you're going to get.

When the 2000 team came up against a serious half-court team in Michigan State, and the perimeter shots did not fall, it was all over. We'd been exposed as a terrific team in transition that couldn't get its act together in the half court.

There's no way you can compare any other team to the back-to-backs. It possessed the rarest of trifectas in a 6-11 center who was a terrific passer, a 6-10 forward with a formidable postup game (esp his final season) and a 6-7 slasher at small forward who could take it to the hole or bury the three, and who played lockdown defense. There will never be another one to compare.

[AlwaysWrite]

Having someone, anyone, who could hit a free throw in crunch time would be nice too. Have we made the front end of a 1-and-1 this season? Doesn't seem like it.

[WhoGator]

Comparing teams is difficult stuff, but if you have to compare this year's team to any other, it's the 2000 team.
Whereas the 2000 team enjoyed the versatility of Mike Murphy, the 2012-13 team doesn't have a counterpart.

I'm sure you meant Mike Miller.
And with all the discussion about being weak at crunch time, I said it then and I'll say it now... if we call time out to set up a play against Butler, we don't make it out of the first round of the NCAA's in 2000. Miller's ad lib runner in the lane as time expired kept that tournament going. We've just never been good calling/running plays in the closing seconds.

[Class of '78]

Comparing teams is difficult stuff, but if you have to compare this year's team to any other, it's the 2000 team.
Whereas the 2000 team enjoyed the versatility of Mike Murphy, the 2012-13 team doesn't have a counterpart.

I'm sure you meant Mike Miller.
And with all the discussion about being weak at crunch time, I said it then and I'll say it now... if we call time out to set up a play against Butler, we don't make it out of the first round of the NCAA's in 2000. Miller's ad lib runner in the lane as time expired kept that tournament going. We've just never been good calling/running plays in the closing seconds.

Lol, I did. Mike Murphy just left my office an hour ago.

[mrgator]

Class of '78: You are right. At this point in the season it is very hard to compare any team. I think when all the trophies are engraved and the championship hats are handed out, then you can compare better. It's pretty obvious that we have strong descriptors for the different teams. I wonder how this team will shake out in comparison.

I think the 12-13 team plays a better half court than we give it credit for but without a great post up big it is hard to have an inside/outside game. But we do run great half court sets that rely heavily on the 3 ball or mid-range jumpers.

[Class of '78]

Class of '78: You are right. At this point in the season it is very hard to compare any team. I think when all the trophies are engraved and the championship hats are handed out, then you can compare better. It's pretty obvious that we have strong descriptors for the different teams. I wonder how this team will shake out in comparison.

I think the 12-13 team plays a better half court than we give it credit for but without a great post up big it is hard to have an inside/outside game. But we do run great half court sets that rely heavily on the 3 ball or mid-range jumpers.

First option always seems to be have four guys rotate the perimeter, passing laterally along the arc looking for the open three. Failing that, one of the guards dribble penetrates to the paint. Failing that, he lobs the ball into Young and lets him do his thing. I've complained all season of lack of cohesive ball movement, and I still don't see it. We've got the guys to run the half-court sets, at least I think, but it's not happening consistently.

[Double Gator Dad]

Been there, done that... actually the 04's collapsed worse, though this regular season is far from over.

2006 - After starting 17-0 we went 5-6 from January 21-Feb 26 and all the losses were close games. On Feb 18, we were 22-3 and then lost 3 straight (at Arkansas, home vs SCar, at Alabama) before closing out the regular season with wins vs Georgia and at Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

2007 - We started 24-2 blowing almost everyone out (lost 82-80 vs Kansas and 70-66 at FSU). From Feb 17-27 we lost 3 of 4 (at Vandy, at LSU, at Tenn) before closing out with a home win vs Kentucky... we then won both post-season tournaments.

Many similarities... a dominant team that struggles with the close ones.

I agree that there is some similarity but not that much.

The '06 team hit a wall given the pressure of being undefeated and Cory Brewer got hurt which killed the chemistry

The '07 team clinched the SEC regular season championship and then proceeded to take the next two weeks off (seriously, they admitted it after the season) before turning the switch on for the post season. I don't think this team is talented enough to turn it off or on. They just lost.

I will say it again, as a 31 year season ticket holder, I think I have some level of credibility. The loss to Mizz is not that big of a deal but I must admit that this team has a knack for blowing leads in tight games which is a big deal.