Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alagator, Clawhammergator, Google Adsense [Bot], Hoosier Gator, lumagator, MSNbot Media, soflagator and 41 guests

Ala and Recruiting

A sports-bar atmosphere where Gators, Noles, Vols, Dawgs and other fans can meet and discuss various topics in the sports world. We reserve the right to reject any registration.

Moderators: Moderator, Site Administrators

Ala and Recruiting

Postby tradergator1 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:34 pm

Every year it seems both us and Ala are in the top 10 in recruiting, but it seems like Ala's players are just soooooo much skilled than ours- take AJ McCarron for example (smart QB, almost no mistakes, very efficient). Obviously the running backs are "Bama are at a completely different level in Lacy and Yeldon, etc.... And WR in Amari Cooper, kid is a true freshman folks and an absolute beast! The offensive line of course; I mean what the hell?! What am I missing here? The skill gap between us and Ala is huge, are we just recruiting too much of the same thing or are we just squandering talent.
tradergator1
Senior Gator
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:21 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby Gator Fever » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:39 pm

tradergator1 wrote:Every year it seems both us and Ala are in the top 10 in recruiting, but it seems like Ala's players are just soooooo much skilled than ours- take AJ McCarron for example (smart QB, almost no mistakes, very efficient). Obviously the running backs are "Bama are at a completely different level in Lacy and Yeldon, etc.... And WR in Amari Cooper, kid is a true freshman folks and an absolute beast! The offensive line of course; I mean what the hell?! What am I missing here? The skill gap between us and Ala is huge, are we just recruiting too much of the same thing or are we just squandering talent.


Meyer recruited too much on speed alone on offense I think especially at the end and I agree with much of that above but McCarron is no great QB - any above average QB can look like that when you have their O line and RB's.

On another note - I had to laugh when Cowherd said Bama had a steroid problem supposedly when Saban took over and he cleaned it up. They have way more roided looking players than they ever had now since Saban is there. :lol:
" But understand we are not changing who we are philosophically on offense" - Coach Will Muschamp...
User avatar
Gator Fever
Bull Gator
 
Posts: 6635
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:35 am

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby Homer J » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:41 pm

The differences I see are Champ has yet to recruit a difference maker at WR. This year will be different though. Also, he finally got a couple of O-linemen in last year and this year he got quite a few.

Any Gator fan that complains about 11-2 this year needs to revisit August's Gator Sports forum and see what was going on then. We would have killed for an 11-2 season. He has us going in the right direction and I think losing the bowl game may help next year when our players are in Pasadena. He'll have the leadership in Easley, Ropo and Hilapio to keep the team focused.
Image
User avatar
Homer J
Head Ball Coach
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:59 pm
Location: Flowery Branch, GA

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby tradergator1 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:45 pm

I think our offense lacks an identity and that makes it harder for us to recruit the players we need on that side of the ball. We're live 1/2 option, 1/2 pro-style = nothing. We need to decide what type of offense we want- can't have both; either we play a TXAM type offense or Ala type offense and recruit based on those specific needs.
tradergator1
Senior Gator
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:21 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby GatorKen » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:00 pm

Our recruiting is just as good. We have many factors that are playing though.

Bama is in stable program mode. Those players have been in the same program with the same coaches their entire college Career.

We have finally, our OC coming back for a second year. We have a new Strength coach that has been here what a year? And his 1 year improvement has been nice on a lot of players. And Champ has only been here 2 years going into his third.

Going from the spread option to a grind style team takes time but I believe physically and player wise we are well ahead of the game. In a year or two we'll have the OL that champ really wants and we'll look a lot like Bama up front.
oxrageous wrote:Ken and I are now officially best friends.


I want an OC with the mentality of a High School Jr on Prom night rather than a guy who's been married 20 years and has 4 children.
User avatar
GatorKen
Bull Gator
 
Posts: 5659
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:04 pm
Location: Murica

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby NavetG8r » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:02 pm

tradergator1 wrote:I think our offense lacks an identity and that makes it harder for us to recruit the players we need on that side of the ball. We're live 1/2 option, 1/2 pro-style = nothing. We need to decide what type of offense we want- can't have both; either we play a TXAM type offense or Ala type offense and recruit based on those specific needs.


You don't have to zone block to run a read play. And WM will never go for a aTm type offense. It can rack up the yards with an exceptional QB, but it wouldn't go anywhere with an average or less QB. You can't depend on always having a Johnny Football to run that style of offense. WM is all about ball control just like his mentor at Bamma. The difference right now is, Bamma has an offensive line that is miles ahead of ours and gives a very respectable QB in AJ, time to throw when he needs to. We don't lack identity, we lack the kind of O-Line it takes to be dominant. JD isn't any better than average right now as a QB. In fact, he's probably below average. But he doesn't have to be better than average to manage a ball control offense. He'll be better next year (we hope), and it'll make a difference.
DCflorida wrote:"Oh that's right, I had totally forgotten that we were 4-8 and Muschamp sucks. Thanks for the reminder, I will go back to being miserable and angry now."
User avatar
NavetG8r
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:59 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby GatorKen » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:35 pm

NavetG8r wrote:
tradergator1 wrote:I think our offense lacks an identity and that makes it harder for us to recruit the players we need on that side of the ball. We're live 1/2 option, 1/2 pro-style = nothing. We need to decide what type of offense we want- can't have both; either we play a TXAM type offense or Ala type offense and recruit based on those specific needs.


You don't have to zone block to run a read play. And WM will never go for a aTm type offense. It can rack up the yards with an exceptional QB, but it wouldn't go anywhere with an average or less QB. You can't depend on always having a Johnny Football to run that style of offense. WM is all about ball control just like his mentor at Bamma. The difference right now is, Bamma has an offensive line that is miles ahead of ours and gives a very respectable QB in AJ, time to throw when he needs to. We don't lack identity, we lack the kind of O-Line it takes to be dominant. JD isn't any better than average right now as a QB. In fact, he's probably below average. But he doesn't have to be better than average to manage a ball control offense. He'll be better next year (we hope), and it'll make a difference.



Brantley, Reed, Burton in 2010 in the Daz/Meyer offense. Needed a special player for QB in those types of offenses where the QB is the running play-maker. A&M throws more than Meyer did though, which is why we struggled so much without Harvin as the X factor.
oxrageous wrote:Ken and I are now officially best friends.


I want an OC with the mentality of a High School Jr on Prom night rather than a guy who's been married 20 years and has 4 children.
User avatar
GatorKen
Bull Gator
 
Posts: 5659
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:04 pm
Location: Murica

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby Okeechobee Joe » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:36 pm

NavetG8r wrote:
tradergator1 wrote:I think our offense lacks an identity and that makes it harder for us to recruit the players we need on that side of the ball. We're live 1/2 option, 1/2 pro-style = nothing. We need to decide what type of offense we want- can't have both; either we play a TXAM type offense or Ala type offense and recruit based on those specific needs.


You don't have to zone block to run a read play. And WM will never go for a aTm type offense. It can rack up the yards with an exceptional QB, but it wouldn't go anywhere with an average or less QB. You can't depend on always having a Johnny Football to run that style of offense. WM is all about ball control just like his mentor at Bamma. The difference right now is, Bamma has an offensive line that is miles ahead of ours and gives a very respectable QB in AJ, time to throw when he needs to. We don't lack identity, we lack the kind of O-Line it takes to be dominant. JD isn't any better than average right now as a QB. In fact, he's probably below average. But he doesn't have to be better than average to manage a ball control offense. He'll be better next year (we hope), and it'll make a difference.


SEC coaches will work on trying to figure out how to stop Manziel. We shut him down in the second half. What if Manziel gets hurt? Then where is the Texas A&M? offense? If Alabama played Texas A&M again, I wouldn't bet against Alabama winning. Remember last year when LSU beat Alabama 9 to 6 in the regular season, but Bama came back to beat them soundly 21 to 0 the second time around?

Nothing Muschamp has ever said or done would indicate he wants to play Texas A&M Johnny Manziel style football. Our problem has not been stating what our identity is. The problem has been living up to our identity.
User avatar
Okeechobee Joe
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby GatorTAG » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:00 pm

We are not quite at Bama's level yet. We are in transition from a head coach that wanted to run an Oregon type offense with small fast players. Those teams can't beat. Good SEC teams. Oregon has lost to LSU and Auburn in the past 3 years if you need proof.

Transitions take time. We are 2 years into the metamorphosis from Meyer's players to Muschamp's players. Which means we still have 2 years worth of of the old regime still on the roster. Look a the O and D linemen Muschamp is bringing in. They are huge compared to Meyer's players. In fact all the positions are bigger.

The faster Muschamp can move Meyer's players out and his players in the faster he'll be able to compete with a team like Bama. That's why I have no problem with all the transfers going on. That's not a hit on Meyer. It's just condtion that has to happen.
Swamp Queen wrote:I miss basketball just so you negative tards couldn't complain as much.
User avatar
GatorTAG
Head Ball Coach
 
Posts: 4690
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby MJMGator » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:35 pm

Bama's o-line was the difference maker for them this year. Their defense was no better than UF, UGA, SC, LSU, etc. Their o-line was one of the most dominant in recent memory. It is what made a couple of solid RB's and a solid QB all look like Heisman candidates. Big holes and a clean pocket will tend to do that.
t-gator wrote:
Out of all those sperm cells I can't believe 561 one the race
MJMGator
Head Ball Coach
 
Posts: 4197
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby G8RByte » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:57 pm

MJMGator wrote:Bama's o-line was the difference maker for them this year. Their defense was no better than UF, UGA, SC, LSU, etc. Their o-line was one of the most dominant in recent memory. It is what made a couple of solid RB's and a solid QB all look like Heisman candidates. Big holes and a clean pocket will tend to do that.


I was listening o Finebaum before the season started and he said, "if you think Alabama's defense was good last year, wait til you see this offensive line this year." Weird way to phrase it but he was right. It is a line of scrimmage league.
Reporter "What do you think about your team's execution?". John McKay "I'm all for it".
User avatar
G8RByte
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:58 pm
Location: Titusville, FL

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby G8RByte » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:58 pm

...and Alabama players look like they are on bovine steroids.
Reporter "What do you think about your team's execution?". John McKay "I'm all for it".
User avatar
G8RByte
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:58 pm
Location: Titusville, FL

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby rogdochar » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:10 am

McCarron this season qualifies himself as an elite QB. Seeing his
"fitting" passes in perfectly on those down & out sideline pinpoint
routes. Threading the middle-needle to a falling freshman Jones, TD
McCarron also dropped in a 'coupla' fade TDs too. His completion %
for the year even is near 70%.

McCarron has more time & gets his passes off for completions; bet
he has less time & gets his passes off for completions. He completes
long-flite passes. McCarron does this "managing" a team that could
run every play and still win ... okay 92% run plays. Against LSU, with
too little time and them knowing he had to pass, he marched them
to the win against a top team.

I have been all-in for Driskel, but until he operates more like McCarron,
or Bridgewater or more like 30,40, 50 of the QBs who got their pass-
offenses in the "top100" ... until then we can't compete with Bama.
The effective offense of balanced excellence is the one that great
DCs cannot shut down, embarrass. That's what I want for the Gators.

I may agree that it all isn't on Jeff, but that's worse because it says
we are missing lots of winning components. That means we have a
longer way to go. It means to get started we must, right-now, have
all the right coaches in place. The question is do we have those.
User avatar
rogdochar
Gatorsports Legend
 
Posts: 12734
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:17 am

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby alcoholica » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:53 am

Alabama was/is notorious for over signing and medical hardshipping any player who doesn't pan out. That means you have a statistical advantage over signing only 25. Meanwhile, our attrition has killed our live bodies for practice, development, etc. Muschamp is real close to being done with the Meyer stench in the air.

Bama's OLine was sick this year, but I think 3 leave including their best OLineman in Jones. I think we have an opportunity to put out a real solid line this year, but they need to gel and not let Halapio play unless he truly earns it. McCarron is a better than average QB, but he will not be that good next year without their line.
Image
User avatar
alcoholica
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby mrgator » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 am

There are a lot of great points brought up already: 1.Bama is stable now. They too had a bad first year under Saban and had two losses the next year under him. 2. Continuity with the same coordinators is going to be huge for these players. They haven't had that in over 4 years (Mullen leaving, Meyer leaving with Daz), Weis leaving, etc. 3. New strength coach focused on building the kind of players needed for our defensive and offensive philosophies.

Add in attrition from transfers and early entries and you are where you are on 1/9/2013. A team that is improving but will need more time to develop.

The next big question will be: Does Muschamp have a coaching ceiling (ala Mark Richt)? We won't know that for a few years but it will be interesting if he has the chops to make the gators into a NC team.
mrgator
Heisman Gator
 
Posts: 1677
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby phideltgator » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:14 am

You walk into the player's home you are recruiting and say the following....do you want to play for the NFL and win a NC on the way? If yes sign the paper, if no wish him luck as you leave the house.
User avatar
phideltgator
Head Ball Coach
 
Posts: 3637
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:08 pm
Location: way down South

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby G8rnTtown » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:17 am

Numerous good points posted in this thread. 1,The gators still very much are in the middle of a complete philosophy/stye make over. 2, Sabans recruiting practices as compared to most other programs has clearly given the bammers a competitive edge. While most other programs are only signing the # of players that their 85 scholly ceiling allows, he routinely brings in a full class of 25 players and "manages" to fit the into that 85 number. But Jeremy Foley is a smart man. He understood the Sabanization of the SEC. So to fight fire, he brought in fire. He hired a Saban disciple. Muschamp "Will" reshape the gators into a hard nosed physically intimidating team. It just takes time. And as for whether his "ceiling" can lead to a championship, only time will tell. But if and when it doesnt and he leaves, cant help but believe that this team will be a lot more talent ready to do so than when he first got here.
G8rnTtown
Baby Gator
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:03 am

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby divits888 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:55 am

As noted by others, it all begins and ends on the offensive line. And in my opinion our offensive line has be more than lacking. Even against a good defense BAMA’s running backs are usually not touched until the reach the linebacker level, whereas many times our guys have to start elluding tacklers right after taking the hand off. Gilly made a lot of those 1,000 yards on his own. When a back has a chance to get up a head of steam before encountering tacklers their momentum allows them to make extra yards. And forget about pass blocking. McCarron never even came close to being touched against ND. Give any decent QB that much time and they will pick you apart. It allows the QB the ability to get into a rhythm and concentrate solely on completing the pass. Knock Driskel all you want, but if given the time that McCarron has he would be lighting it up too. Our QB’s have and average of about 2-3 seconds before a defender is in their face or collapsing the pocket. As I mentioned before, how is it that three of the top HS QB’s in the county, Brantley, Driskel and Brissett are all made to look like bumblers when they come to Florida? We haven’t had a decent line since 2008.
User avatar
divits888
Bull Gator
 
Posts: 6933
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby jand3k » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:10 am

HomerJ and GatorKen have nailed it w/their first responses to this ridiculous thread topic...it comes down to consistency in coaching and time in a system, NOT any perceived difference/deficiency of UF vs AL.

To prove that point, I'm sure you remember how good AL was under Gene Stallings. And I know you are aware of how good AL is now as you're close to dragging a razor across your arms right now. Remember; go DOWN the road, not ACROSS the road.

Anyway, back on topic. Look at the below list of AL coaches, their # of years, and their win %. I think you'll see a clear picture of what stability does for winning games.

Gene Stallings 1990 – 1996 .713
Mike Dubose 1997 – 2000 .510
Dennis Franchione 2001 – 2002 .680
Mike Price 2002 –
Mike Shula 2003 – 2006 .303
Joe Kines 2006 .000
Nick Saban 2007 – Present .829
Image
User avatar
jand3k
Head Ball Coach
 
Posts: 4280
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Ala and Recruiting

Postby GatorOwls » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:25 am

11-2 in year 2 - WM is the man! Go Coach Boom.
GatorOwls
Baby Gator
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:26 am

Next

Return to Gatorsports Forum

cron