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Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

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Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby crosscreekcooter » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:40 pm

Yes, another Tebow thread. I hate some of the unfair criticism leveled at him constantly, particularly about his motion (looping, 3/4, and like a baseball pitcher) and footwork (feet set improperly, throwing off the back foot). So lets make some comparisons to some other NFL great signal-callers.
I am not by any stretch making a case that Tim is equal to any of these players in talent or that he is a future HOF'er (although he is the last I would bet against), just making some comparisons to their throwing motions and footwork.
Bret Favre
Image
In this picture, at the snap from the gun, Favre is described as looking more like being in line at the hardware store waiting to ring up a box of roofing nails.
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There's the loop everybody hates so much.
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This baseball pitcher just threw a strike to Sidney Rice in the endzone.
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So you know the last wasn't a fluke.
Steve Young
"I look at Tim Tebow's throwing motion and it doesn't look that much different than Steve Young's, if you put them next to each other. Steve Young would drop the ball when he threw it. And he's a Hall of Fame quarterback. To me it's more important to be natural than it is to shave a tenth of a second off the time it takes to get rid of the ball." - Jim Harbaugh
Image
Image
In this game Tebow threw for 185 yds and 3 touchdowns and ran for 80 yds and another td.
"It was a good tail-whipping," FSU coach Bobby Bowden said. "I didn't think they would beat us like that here. The last time we had a beating like that was last year against them."
Image
the 3/4 motion by Young
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Tebow's 3/4 throw
There was a comparison made the other night of Russell Willson's looping throwing motion, but I cannot find any pictures of the comparison.
Frpm Wikipedia
On October 31, 2009, while playing against the Georgia Bulldogs, Tebow ran for his 50th and 51st rushing touchdowns, breaking the SEC career record previously held by former Georgia running back Herschel Walker. His penultimate collegiate game, the 2009 SEC Championship, saw him once again facing the University of Alabama. Tebow threw for 245 yards and a touchdown and led the team with 63 yards rushing, but the Gators fell 32–13 and lost their chance to play for a second consecutive national title. Florida beat Cincinnati 51–24 in the 2010 Sugar Bowl the following January. In what was Tebow's last college game, he completed 31-of-35 passes for 482 yards and three touchdowns and accounted for four total touchdowns and 533 yards of total offense, which set a record for a Bowl Championship Series game.
College statistics and recordsAt the end of his college career, Tebow held 5 NCAA, 14 Southeastern Conference, and 28 University of Florida statistical records. He was the SEC's all-time leader in career passing efficiency (170.8), completion percentage (67.1%), passing touchdown to interception ratio (5.5 to 1), rushing yards by a quarterback (2947), rushing touchdowns (any position) (57), and total touchdowns responsible for (145). Among many mentions in the NCAA Division-I record book, Tebow is ranked second in career passing efficiency, third in career yards per attempt (9.33), 8th in career rushing touchdowns, and also owns the record for most consecutive games in which he both threw at least one touchdown pass and scored at least one rushing touchdown (14).
I know college doesn't always translate successfully in the pros, BUT COME ON MAN!
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby bullag8r » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:45 pm

Is that all you got? :cool:

His throwing motion was good enough to beat Ryan's Jets and Sporano's Dolphins last year.

:flower:
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby WobbleGator » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:52 pm

Tebow is too bulky now.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby Gatorbythebay » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:11 pm

WobbleGator wrote:Tebow is too bulky now.

But he considers it carry on
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby MatthewM. » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Yes.
PigsEyeGator wrote:Right now I am so f'ing low that I would do MatthewM.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby williston_gator » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:16 pm

Gatorbythebay wrote:
WobbleGator wrote:Tebow is too bulky now.

But he considers it carry on


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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby williston_gator » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:17 pm

But yes, if Rivers can succeed so can Tebow.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby UF_Cheme_Student » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:27 pm

Of course it has, just like Russel Wilson being to short was over blown prior to him becoming a successful starter. While every QB needs the minimal physical tools to play in the NFL, what truly matters is what is in between the ears. The QB needs to be able to read the defense prior to the play, manipulate the defense, think quickly and rapidly progress through their reads. This is the trait that will prevent Tebow from being a great QB.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby Homer J » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:41 pm

Don't confuse the non believers with facts and pictures. Because Todd McShay, Mel Kipers and Merril Hoge said he can't throw, he won't be a real NFL QB.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby Gatorbythebay » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:48 pm

williston_gator wrote:But yes, if Rivers can succeed so can Tebow.

Are you suggesting that Rivers has had success?
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby williston_gator » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Gatorbythebay wrote:
williston_gator wrote:But yes, if Rivers can succeed so can Tebow.

Are you suggesting that Rivers has had success?


Marginal....lol.

I mean that if with his wonky motion he can be a solid starter for years than so can Tim.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby gatormandan » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Put Tebow on a decent team and make him the starting QB and let him play the game. Turn him loose. Give him full control of the offense. I say he is a winner in the NFL as long as he stays healthy.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby ReelGatorDoc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:01 pm

Seems like the "experts" loved Sanchez's throwing motion coming out of college.

let's review how that has worked out
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby TommyGator » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:05 pm

Absolutely too much has been made of it. Many QBs have become NFL stars without "perfect form."

I don't know how in the hell this continues to be an issue, but most talking heads proclaim him "unable to run a NFL offense" when he has NEVER been given the opportunity to do so. Just put him on the field, let him play and judge him on the RESULTS of his performance, NOT a PREDICTION of it.

When Bubba Watson won the Master, last year, it was a perfect analogy. The guy is unorthodox, but he got the job done over the best field of golfers on the planet.

For the life of me, I can't figure out the hate and doubt around this young man. It make ZERO sense....
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby Gatorbythebay » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:10 pm

gatormandan wrote:Put Tebow on a decent team and make him the starting QB and let him play the game. Turn him loose. Give him full control of the offense. I say he is a winner in the NFL as long as he stays healthy.

He was in a great position at Denver. He had a really good defense, a solid running back, a town that embraced him, and a coach that was willing to let him do his thing because all he cared about was winning. Sadly, Elway wanted a quarterback that was more his style, and age.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby GatorGrad74 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:22 pm

TommyGator wrote:Absolutely too much has been made of it. Many QBs have become NFL stars without "perfect form."

I don't know how in the hell this continues to be an issue, but most talking heads proclaim him "unable to run a NFL offense" when he has NEVER been given the opportunity to do so. Just put him on the field, let him play and judge him on the RESULTS of his performance, NOT a PREDICTION of it.

When Bubba Watson won the Master, last year, it was a perfect analogy. The guy is unorthodox, but he got the job done over the best field of golfers on the planet.

For the life of me, I can't figure out the hate and doubt around this young man. It make ZERO sense....


+100
In both professional golf and tennis, there is no such thing as "perfect form" and those whose grips or follow throughs are considered extreme by the purists cry all the way to the bank. IMO, this is all about Tebow the human being--haters just have to hate in order to feel better about themselves. He may not be the best professional QB there is, but the guy has proven time and again that he is a winner IF given a truly fair chance and the support of his coaches and teammates.
BTW, thanks CrossCreekCooter for the photo studies--they speak volumes.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby -THE DUDE- » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Yes it has been blown way out of proportion. Tim's problem always has been and still continues is his lack of vision. It's his slow decision making that causes his problem. He needs to learn how to throw to spots on the field and not when a receiver gets open. When the receiver gets open that's when the ball needs to be there and not when the pass gets thrown.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby Maillot Jaune » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:22 pm

Too much has been made of his motion. As long as the QB can make the right decision, fit the ball in a tight space on time, it doesn't matter if he throws underhand.

But since an expert like Hoge has spoken, he's doomed.
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby rogdochar » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:36 pm

1) Tim has never had a coached that believed in him,that in the
"Coach-to-beginner-QB" heart to heart personally or publicly
supported Tim Tebow - not even when he got results better than
most veterans at Denver. All winning results unattainable by well
enough respected & encouraged Orton.

2) With his natural muscle-memory & mental memory "form" this
QB rewrote the maximum # of CFB QB records, even RB TD record
held by college/NFL great Herschel Walker.

3) Tim's been acknowledged, by plenty of unbiased football
"wise-men", as the most determined, hardest working preparer
in football.

4) Accomplished NFL coaches having talked football basics with
Tebow say "he shocked me with how much detailed knowledge
of the game he can express." This kid has studied & still studies
film not only his team but all other teams.

5) Let this be an accolade for the perfect form shown in "Crosscreek"s
"know-show-it all post . Thanks "CrossCooter".
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Re: Has too much been made of Tebow's throwing motion?

Postby sportstalk » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:48 pm

UF_Cheme_Student wrote:Of course it has, just like Russel Wilson being to short was over blown prior to him becoming a successful starter. While every QB needs the minimal physical tools to play in the NFL, what truly matters is what is in between the ears. The QB needs to be able to read the defense prior to the play, manipulate the defense, think quickly and rapidly progress through their reads. This is the trait that will prevent Tebow from being a great QB.



Excellent point. As one who did not think Tebow would be an NFL QB, it was not so much about his motion but more about his ability to read defenses and make decisions. When the footwork is bad it does bring the bad motion more into play. It is also hard to compare a guy like Favre throwing off his back foot to when Tebow does. Favre had a monster strong arm. Speaking of Rivers his arm is very very weak, but he does make quick decisions and is reasonably accurate. And by accurate I don;t necessarily mean the completion % but putting the ball where it needs to be consistently. Tebow had a great % in college as do many college QB's b/c of shovel passes, slip screens and quick screens, but often times on those throws Tebow as well as other college QB's put the ball at the feet or the wrong shoulder causing the receiver to lose his rhythm. The NFL game is so geared toward the offense and the passing game is so much easier than it used to be b/c of the rules, that defenses have to be creative b/c they can't be physical anymore. Thus that defensive creativity means the QB plays equally with his mind as well as with his physical tools. I would love for Tim to become a 5 tool player and play for 10 years or so, but as long as he wants to play QB (his prerogative), this topic will never end until he is out of the league.
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