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16 YO boy, illegal and drinking, has accident


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#1 DrW

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 01:53 PM

All those who feel sorry for this poor boy should be the ones to pay for his hospital treatment and damages he caused.

 

Instead, those who don't want him in this country will also have to pay.

 

 

He is an illegal who was drinking. As such he is a foreign invader who is a parasite taking more of this nation's tax dollars than he contributes.

 

We should put those employers in jail who hire illegals (foreign invaders), so as to deny them from working, and deny them any services such as food stamps, welfare, education, health care, etc.

 

They would then self-deport without costing our taxpayers a dime, unless liberals wanted to take them in and provide for them without taxpayer money.


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#2 dclive1776

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 05:42 PM

Market forces drive immigration, legal or not. Start going after business owners for having employees in the country illegally and you will begin to negatively affect the nation's economy. Additionally, such a proposal is infinitely more intrusive than Obamacare as far as government meddling in the free market. It may very well solve one problem, but create a whole new set of issues like inflation.

 

There are numerous options to address illegal immigration, but charging business owners with felonies (i.e., placing them in jail) for their employees immigration status is probably the worst in terms of the effect it will have on the nation's economy. It's definitely the most anti-free market proposal I've heard.



#3 DrW

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 06:08 PM

Market forces drive immigration, legal or not. Start going after business owners for having employees in the country illegally and you will begin to negatively affect the nation's economy. Additionally, such a proposal is infinitely more intrusive than Obamacare as far as government meddling in the free market. It may very well solve one problem, but create a whole new set of issues like inflation.

 

There are numerous options to address illegal immigration, but charging business owners with felonies (i.e., placing them in jail) for their employees immigration status is probably the worst in terms of the effect it will have on the nation's economy. It's definitely the most anti-free market proposal I've heard.

 

Not so. There are probably business leaders waiting in the wings, as good as those now in position, that can take over.

 

But what will really happen is after one or two convictions and jail time, for leaders who hire illegals, there will be no more hiring and thus no more convictions. The disruption to business would be insignificant with no effect on the nation's economy. The slight increase in salaries paid to legals over that paid to illegals will be more than offset by reducing unemployment (and welfare for them) and reducing the cost to taxpayers of paying to support illegals in education, health care, welfare, etc. Thus the economy would improve and not get worse as you invalidly predict.

 

Forcing business to hire legals is not anti-free market anymore than a minimum wage requirement, and by eliminating the cost to taxpayers of illegals in this country you give more money to consumers to spend (where government costs and tax increases go down), which stimulates the economy.

 

As far as other options to the self-deportation plan, they won't work well at all and will increase the cost to taxpayers to implement and maintain these options. Increasing the cost to taxpayers hurts the economy by taking money from consumers and wasting it on government,



#4 DrthG8r

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 10:32 AM

Mexico has just built a new facility on the border south of San Diego and will soon begin checking passports of all Americans at the border crossing.  ANY American staying in Mexico beyond their selected time period will be detained.  Americans will be required to have their passport with them at all times.  In the past you could drive or fly to Mexico with a drivers license.

 

I applaud them for taking this stand, I only wish we had the backbone to do the same thing.

 

I am so tired about hearing that illegals have rights under our constitution. 

 

This kid should be deported along with his parents (if they are in country) - AFTER he pays his debt  to our society.

 

Years ago I had a military officer from Sweden who was here attending a military school in the United States.  He thought it was terrible the way we treated illegals.  All they were looking for was a secure future.

 

Two years ago I met with this officer again who is now a Colonel and his tune has changed.  Now with middle eastern immigrants flooding Europe Sweden finds itself in a bad situation because the illegals are sucking the lifeblood out of the Swedish socialist system.

 

Stand by - we are in for a ride!


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#5 DrW

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 01:55 PM

We should shoot foreign invaders crossing the Rio Grande whoever they may be - including women and children. After a few are killed they will quickly stop coming.

 

They are invading to steal from us and sometimes to kill us. These foreign invaders take our jobs (and drive down pay for our own lesser paid citizens), and take our welfare and our social, health and educational services,

 

They are literally capturing and taking over our company with the blessing of our idiot politicians and idiot voters.

 

We are being destroyed by our own stupidity and the corrupt politicians we elect.


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#6 GatorUrf10

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 10:55 AM

We should shoot foreign invaders crossing the Rio Grande whoever they may be - including women and children. After a few are killed they will quickly stop coming.

 

They are literally capturing and taking over our company with the blessing of our idiot politicians and idiot voters.

 

We are being destroyed by our own stupidity and the corrupt politicians we elect.

 

Wow... the last line I agree with but jesus, you're going to shoot women and children? It's 2015. There are better ways of getting things done. Trump and his great wall paid for by Mexico sound logical next to this statement.


On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS


#7 DrW

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 10:47 PM

Wow... the last line I agree with but jesus, you're going to shoot women and children? It's 2015. There are better ways of getting things done. Trump and his great wall paid for by Mexico sound logical next to this statement.

 

Looking at the problem logically and realistically for the most cost-effective solution possible, killing anyone who attempts to cross our border illegally is best.

 

Killing is good when it contributes to the greatest good for the greatest number in the nation. It is stupid when we do what is best for the world when it costs our nation. Would you kill a child or a woman with a suicide vest about to set it off in public in the USA? Illegals are foreign invaders taking over our nation and cost taxpayers billions each year - real damage like killing some of us. 

 

If you let your emotion over-rule your logic, so that the horror of killing (even though it is a good thing) dominates your opinion, then you will seek a much more costly solution that will not work well, e.g., a wall. Mexico is not about to build a wall since they are helping solve their social problems by actively dumping their criminals and poor people over here.


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#8 GatorUrf10

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:27 AM

Looking at the problem logically and realistically for the most cost-effective solution possible, killing anyone who attempts to cross our border illegally is best.

 

Killing is good when it contributes to the greatest good for the greatest number in the nation. It is stupid when we do what is best for the world when it costs our nation. Would you kill a child or a woman with a suicide vest about to set it off in public in the USA? Illegals are foreign invaders taking over our nation and cost taxpayers billions each year - real damage like killing some of us. 

 

If you let your emotion over-rule your logic, so that the horror of killing (even though it is a good thing) dominates your opinion, then you will seek a much more costly solution that will not work well, e.g., a wall. Mexico is not about to build a wall since they are helping solve their social problems by actively dumping their criminals and poor people over here.

 

I can't even begin to start with how logically and realistically wrong this entire statement is.

 

So you're saying killing is cheap so it's okay? Logical and realistic thought is based on primal emotion. Logically and realistically? Seriously?

 

If you apply your 'logic' and 'reason' to world politics America would become another Nazi regime. How is that not disgusting to you? 

 

Anyone who wants to kill women and children to save a buck has no logic or reason. Don't compare illegal immigrants to suicide bombers, either. How is that logical? Life is not cheap no matter how much you disassociate yourself with other groups of people.

 

I'm not going to argue about this. We are the United States of America. We have the means to effectively secure our borders WITHOUT violence, especially on women and children. I find your lack of appreciation for other human lives disturbing.


On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS


#9 DrW

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 04:23 PM

I can't even begin to start with how logically and realistically wrong this entire statement is.

 

So you're saying killing is cheap so it's okay? Logical and realistic thought is based on primal emotion. Logically and realistically? Seriously?

 

If you apply your 'logic' and 'reason' to world politics America would become another Nazi regime. How is that not disgusting to you? 

 

Anyone who wants to kill women and children to save a buck has no logic or reason. Don't compare illegal immigrants to suicide bombers, either. How is that logical? Life is not cheap no matter how much you disassociate yourself with other groups of people.

 

I'm not going to argue about this. We are the United States of America. We have the means to effectively secure our borders WITHOUT violence, especially on women and children. I find your lack of appreciation for other human lives disturbing.

 

 

Why is the killing of illegal immigrants, who are parasitic foreign invaders who will lower the standard of living of our nation, wrong from a logical and realistic perspective?

 

All you can offer in retort is emotional blather which you claim is logical.

 

The idea that human life is sacred is based on emotionally-based inductive abstraction and this overgeneralization is an example of thought disorder. Is the life of the terrorist, who is trying to kill you or those you love, sacred?

 

It is logical and moral to kill a few illegal immigrants to inexpensively stop many millions from flooding our nation and draining many millions of our tax dollars, thereby helping our own citizens to increase their standard of living. Why should we spend billions on ineffective border control when killing a few crossing the Rio Grande river will be maximally effective.

 

The life of this nation's enemies is worthless. Those foreigners who seek to take our tax dollars are enemies. The cheapest and most logical and effective solution is to kill them before they can rob our tax dollars.


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#10 Jabberdave

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:39 PM

You know what would be cool?  A political forum.

 

KlghQ.gif


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There's not really an emoticon that says "I'm sorry I honked your boobs, and that you weren't a fan of that."


#11 CivilGator

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:25 PM

You know what would be cool?  A political forum.

 

KlghQ.gif

 

:idea:



#12 DrthG8r

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 09:11 AM

Europe has a situation that is almost funny.

 

For years certain European leaders and movements have been critical of us for the way we treat illegals.  Now it's on their doorstep, and suddenly it's no longer fashionable.

 

We have problems that are much more critical than the illegal immigration issues...until you step back and look at how the issue affects so very much of our society.  Today I read an article about a study released by The Center for Immigration studies that says over 51% of all immigrant households receive some sort of welfare benefit.  These benefits include Medicaid, food stamps, housing assistance and school lunches.  This figure is at 31% for native households.

 

We are being bled to death, and we are watching it take place.

 

We are a compassionate nation.  We give more than any other nation in the world to assist whole nations in need. 

 

I'm not trying to wage battle in this forum by explaining my beliefs, but I will say this in the most respectful manner I can.  I dare say more Americans are maimed, or murdered by illegal immigrants than are by terrorists and suicide bombers combined within the confines of our borders.  In addition our borders to the South (more so than the North) is a regular freeway for terrorists to enter our country.

 

Not an easy issue to tackle.



#13 GatorUrf10

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 02:01 PM

Why is the killing of illegal immigrants, who are parasitic foreign invaders who will lower the standard of living of our nation, wrong from a logical and realistic perspective?

 

All you can offer in retort is emotional blather which you claim is logical.

 

The idea that human life is sacred is based on emotionally-based inductive abstraction and this overgeneralization is an example of thought disorder. Is the life of the terrorist, who is trying to kill you or those you love, sacred?

 

It is logical and moral to kill a few illegal immigrants to inexpensively stop many millions from flooding our nation and draining many millions of our tax dollars, thereby helping our own citizens to increase their standard of living. Why should we spend billions on ineffective border control when killing a few crossing the Rio Grande river will be maximally effective.

 

The life of this nation's enemies is worthless. Those foreigners who seek to take our tax dollars are enemies. The cheapest and most logical and effective solution is to kill them before they can rob our tax dollars.

 

Emotional blather? I would call what you're writing has emotional blather as well. There is no logic in anything you are saying.

 

This attitude of kill for economic gain got us into terrible situations in latin america in the middle east. But you're cool with repeating history... so go ahead.

 

Now you're saying I'm emotional over terrorists? Terrorists and innocent women and children are two completely different things. That's logic.


On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS


#14 DrW

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:07 AM

Emotional blather? I would call what you're writing has emotional blather as well. There is no logic in anything you are saying.

 

This attitude of kill for economic gain got us into terrible situations in latin america in the middle east. But you're cool with repeating history... so go ahead.

 

Now you're saying I'm emotional over terrorists? Terrorists and innocent women and children are two completely different things. That's logic.

 

 

We kill for many reasons, and it is moral from the perspective of the killer but immoral for the victim.

 

There is no absolute morality. God is the process underlying causality in the universe and this process is amoral. This God cares nothing about who is killed and who kills - this is irrelevant. Morality is not inherent in ontology - it is inherent in the human mind, and is only defined in hunam personality.

 

Killing is based in economy - dollars and cents. To kill or not is an economic decision, when you strip away the abstract values that are faulty inductions based on thought disorder. This is where logic is found.

 

Our intrusion into the mideast, like our involvement in Vietnam, was not based on logic, but was based more in abstract values stemming from emotion. From a dollars and cents logic, both intrusions were terrible in terms of costs-benefits.

 

Obama and the liberals want to flood this country with illegals, then give them the vote so they can vote for Democrats and their Marxist (income redistribution) policies. This is buying votes from the illegals at the expense of the USA taxpayer. In terms of dollars and cents, this is immoral for the USA.

 

Three out of four immigrant families with children receive welfare form USA taxpayers - greatly hurting the USA taxpayer citizens to help foreigners and foreign nations relieved of the burden of caring for them. This is not just illogical, it is crazy.

 

Killing enemy invaders (illegals) crossing the border is moral for the USA taxpayer because is is more effective and less costly than any other method of stopping illegal immigration. It will solve the problem after just a few are killed and cost the Taxpayer less than otherwise, which is moral from the perspective of the USA taxpayer.  A woman or child is no less a foreign invader than a man - all are seeking to rob from the USA taxpayer.

 

Any opposing view to the above is illogical from a cost-benefit (moral) perspective for the USA, and thus any opposing view is emotionally distorted.

 

GatorUrf10, you are unable to offer any counter-argument based on reality and logic since my opinion is real and logical to the maximal degree. However, I hope you will try for the sake of a full discussion.



#15 DrW

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:10 AM

Emotional blather? I would call what you're writing has emotional blather as well. There is no logic in anything you are saying.

 

This attitude of kill for economic gain got us into terrible situations in latin america in the middle east. But you're cool with repeating history... so go ahead.

 

Now you're saying I'm emotional over terrorists? Terrorists and innocent women and children are two completely different things. That's logic.

 

 

An easy issue to solve, as I have proposed, if you are able to get past the subjective,invalid, and illogical emotion that bottles up your thought. Most people think emotionally and are unable to do this.



#16 GatorUrf10

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:31 AM

An easy issue to solve, as I have proposed, if you are able to get past the subjective,invalid, and illogical emotion that bottles up your thought. Most people think emotionally and are unable to do this.

 

How is not killing innocent women and children invalid?? It's not emotional, it's more logical than anything you're saying, because they are freaking innocent. It's a principle that has been around since pretty much the beginning of time. You know who didn't have a problem killing women and children? Hitler, Nero, Osama Bin Laden, Kim Jung Il/Un, an organization known as ISIS. Yea, let's go ahead and follow their lead, because that's logical... smh


On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS


#17 GatorUrf10

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:35 AM

We kill for many reasons, and it is moral from the perspective of the killer but immoral for the victim.

 

There is no absolute morality. God is the process underlying causality in the universe and this process is amoral. This God cares nothing about who is killed and who kills - this is irrelevant. Morality is not inherent in ontology - it is inherent in the human mind, and is only defined in hunam personality.

 

Killing is based in economy - dollars and cents. To kill or not is an economic decision, when you strip away the abstract values that are faulty inductions based on thought disorder. This is where logic is found.

 

Our intrusion into the mideast, like our involvement in Vietnam, was not based on logic, but was based more in abstract values stemming from emotion. From a dollars and cents logic, both intrusions were terrible in terms of costs-benefits.

 

Obama and the liberals want to flood this country with illegals, then give them the vote so they can vote for Democrats and their Marxist (income redistribution) policies. This is buying votes from the illegals at the expense of the USA taxpayer. In terms of dollars and cents, this is immoral for the USA.

 

Three out of four immigrant families with children receive welfare form USA taxpayers - greatly hurting the USA taxpayer citizens to help foreigners and foreign nations relieved of the burden of caring for them. This is not just illogical, it is crazy.

 

Killing enemy invaders (illegals) crossing the border is moral for the USA taxpayer because is is more effective and less costly than any other method of stopping illegal immigration. It will solve the problem after just a few are killed and cost the Taxpayer less than otherwise, which is moral from the perspective of the USA taxpayer.  A woman or child is no less a foreign invader than a man - all are seeking to rob from the USA taxpayer.

 

Any opposing view to the above is illogical from a cost-benefit (moral) perspective for the USA, and thus any opposing view is emotionally distorted.

 

GatorUrf10, you are unable to offer any counter-argument based on reality and logic since my opinion is real and logical to the maximal degree. However, I hope you will try for the sake of a full discussion.

 

My counter argument is not to kill innocent women and children. Everything you said is on the border of insane. Your entire argument is based on the fact that you think anything is okay as long as it saves you money as a taxpayer. 

 

I can't believe I would think something so emotional.... not killing innocents.... 

 

This conversation makes me sick, and sicker that you think you're the 'logical' one.


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On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS


#18 DrW

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:49 AM

How is not killing innocent women and children invalid?? It's not emotional, it's more logical than anything you're saying, because they are freaking innocent. It's a principle that has been around since pretty much the beginning of time. You know who didn't have a problem killing women and children? Hitler, Nero, Osama Bin Laden, Kim Jung Il/Un, an organization known as ISIS. Yea, let's go ahead and follow their lead, because that's logical... smh

 

These children and women are not innocent - they are foreign invaders coming here to rob from our own taxpayers.

 

We fight wars with our hands tied behind our back out of emotion and no logic. The same emotion prevents us from stopping the invasion of illegals.

 

Illegals are foreign invaders who are destroying our country and would eventually claim it for Mexico.

 

They commit much of our crime, fill up our jails and welfare rolls, and if you think this is not destructive to our nation then you are crazy.



#19 DrW

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:02 AM

My counter argument is not to kill innocent women and children. Everything you said is on the border of insane. Your entire argument is based on the fact that you think anything is okay as long as it saves you money as a taxpayer. 

 

I can't believe I would think something so emotional.... not killing innocents.... 

 

This conversation makes me sick, and sicker that you think you're the 'logical' one.

 

Yes, everything is OK (moral) to do as a nation, from our national perspective of the greatest good for the greatest number of our taxpayers. We should destroy any nation, including its women and children, if it is is best for the long-term interests of our taxpaying citizens

 

 

 

Using atomic bombs against what you call "innocent women and children", to stop WWII and thereby prevent millions of later casualties from a prolonged war, was moral on the part of the USA (and actually moral for Japan in saving more of their lives by stopping the war quickly with atomic bombs). Would you say this was immoral in killing innocent women and children?

 

You would put the interests of foreign invaders (illegals) who would eventually destroy our nation above the interests of the USA taxpayer, and that is immoral if not treasonous.

 

You and your like thinkers would hurt our nation so you could feel good in not killing, putting you own feelings above what is best for the nation.



#20 GatorUrf10

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:20 AM

Yes, everything is OK (moral) to do as a nation, from our national perspective of the greatest good for the greatest number of our taxpayers. We should destroy any nation, including its women and children, if it is is best for the long-term interests of our taxpaying citizens

 

 

 

Using atomic bombs against what you call "innocent women and children", to stop WWII and thereby prevent millions of later casualties from a prolonged war, was moral on the part of the USA (and actually moral for Japan in saving more of their lives by stopping the war quickly with atomic bombs). Would you say this was immoral in killing innocent women and children?

 

You would put the interests of foreign invaders (illegals) who would eventually destroy our nation above the interests of the USA taxpayer, and that is immoral if not treasonous.

 

You and your like thinkers would hurt our nation so you could feel good in not killing, putting you own feelings above what is best for the nation.

 

The fact that you seek no alternative in 2015, a year in which there are so many other ways to solve this problem shows just how lazy you are. I don't care about your argument.


On illegal hits against Danny Wuerffel: "He's like a New Testament person. He gets slapped up side the face, and turns the other cheek and says, 'Lord, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.' I'm probably more of an Old Testament guy. You spear our guy in the earhole, we think we're supposed to spear you in the earhole. That's kind of where we're a little different." - SOS





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